I would like to dedicate this post to the memory of Paul Wisdom Plagens- a man of immeasurable talent and inimitable creative voice. Please keep him in your thoughts as you enjoy Greta's music, and delve into their history with me.
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| Design by Josh Gordon & Richard Frankel; Photography by Alison Dyer and GALLO, C |
"Some People" Audio-1995 (Youtube)
"Silver Blue" Audio- 1995 (Youtube)
"About You" Video- 1995 (Youtube)
"Jesus Crux" Audio- 1993 (Youtube)
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| Greta in Rolling Stone Magazine (5 August 1993); Photo by Greg Allen |
N:
Where did the name “Greta” come from? Did it have anything to do with the dress
Paul was known to wear on stage in the early days? An alter ego perhaps?
JG: Our original drummer
Brad Wilk came up with the name. He left to join Rage Against the Machine.
we were sitting around at rehearsal or in the car trying to come up with a name,
and he said "what do you think about Greta?" We all thought it was
really interesting and unique. I don't know if you've ever been in a band, but
coming up with a good name is such a hard thing to do. We had spent weeks--
maybe even months-- trying to come up with a name with no luck whatsoever. He
said it, and it just kind of rang with us, so we went with it. The dress
originally came from a Halloween outfit that Paul had worn for a house party we
were playing. Paul went in drag, and we thought it was awesome. It brought an
energy to the band, and Paul was able to really let himself go as a lead singer
in it. Most of us have strong feminine components to our personality, and
identify very strongly with feminine energy. The dress and the name personified
this for us. We were feminists from an early age and very anti-macho. The
lyrics to “Off the Slug” are an example of this.
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| Paul Plagens in his Halloween party dress; Photo by Lindsay Brice for Getty Images |
N: I think “No Biting” and “This
Is Greta!”, while very different, are both strong in their own ways. I’ve
noticed some reviewers taking the album title “This Is Greta!” as a declaration
that it embodied the “real” Greta---the project you guys really wanted to do.
Are they making too much of the name, or maybe misinterpreting it? Or was that really
the case?
JG: The short answer is: we
wanted to do both… but the long answer is: the "declaration" is, in
fact, a correct interpretation. Paul and I had been friends since we were 12
years old. We, without question, come from the "Beatles are
God" school of music. We religiously devoured 1960s music: The Who,
The Kinks, Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds, Paul Revere and the
Raiders, and everything in between. We also became punk and new wave fanatics
in the late 70s (which was a seminal era for power pop as well: The Plimsouls,
The Knack, 20/20, Paul Collins Beat), so there was also that dichotomy of pop
music and "alternative", more dangerous/edgy music. Back then we were
regularly bullied at school for wearing punk/new wave styles. We were
threatened on a near daily basis. So as quaint as DEVO and The Clash seem now,
it really freaked people out back then. People had very visceral reactions to
punk rock when it first came out. In 1990 I had become very attracted to industrial/alternative
music. Bands like Ministry were taking music into new territory. I told Paul
that I wanted to start a band that had the heaviness of some of the
metal/industrial music, but with a melodic sense. I wanted to combine the sound
and feel of heavy metal with The Beatles. So, cutting back to your question-- when
we did the first album, “No Biting”, we were all really into the
this hard/soft thing. The first song we came up with for it was
"Fathom". I wrote the music, and Paul and I worked together on the
lyrics. All the melody for “Fathom” was Paul. We felt we had something unique,
and pretty interesting. That set the tone for all of the songs that came after.
By the time we got to "This Is Greta", we were painfully disappointed
by the lack of success of the first record. By the standards of the industry in
charge of our future, it was a colossal disappointment. I have ADD and so I was
in a "let's try something different!" mode. We didn't have anything
to lose and Paul, Kyle and I always admired bands like the Beatles and Stones
that were always changing direction and evolving. Kyle, Scott, and I and were
jamming when we all came up with the music for "About You"-- just
before Paul got to rehearsal. Kyle came up with the gorgeous music to
"Charade". We were just naturally moving in that direction. I think
that kind of music is where we defaulted to. One of our pre-“No Biting” singles,
made right after we signed to Mercury was a pretty straightforward cover of
Hank Williams’ "There'll Be No Teardrops Tonight", and Bing
Crosby's "Pennies From Heaven"-- so were always into anything that
was good, regardless of genre. So, when we came to "This Is Greta" we
had nothing to lose, and thought "fuck it", let’s just make the best
record we can. I had to lobby for the title. I wanted it to be an introduction
to the band like a lot of the sixties debut albums were -- "Meet The
Beatles", "Ladies and Gentlemen, The Rolling Stones", The
Zombies, Begin Here" -- I thought "This Is Greta” was absolutely a
declaration! This is where we come from and this is who we are. I also love
that it's the name of a Spinal Tap record [“This is Spinal Tap”]. We love
Spinal Tap, so there was always a kind of "Tap" awareness that anyone
who makes rock music should be aware of. This was sort of our "Jazz
Odyssey" change of direction, but it was absolutely sincere, and very true
to us.
N: I found a snippet in a Rolling Stone magazine from
August 1993 (written by David Wild) calling Greta “Beatles-influenced hard
rock” (this article predated “No Biting”). The pop/ power pop elements didn’t
really seem as evident until “This Is Greta!”. Was your live set around that
time pretty faithful to what ended up on the “No Biting” album? The Beatles
seem like an odd primary point of reference for the band’s early incarnation
(although your bass playing did always have a melodic McCartney-esque quality
to it, even in the heavier moments). Was some of the later material already
written/ in your repertoire by this point? Just curious where a journalist
would have been coming from in 1993 after seeing one of your shows.
JG: I think I may have
rambled the answer for this in my last answer. The only song from TIG that had
been written during the “No Biting” era was "Rocking Chair". We had a
number of very heavy riffs and jams that we were going to use moving into our
second record, but we really were moving in a different direction. Paul was
writing really strong songs like "You’re So Whatever" and "Some
People," and we were all just going with it. Paul wasn't into heavy
metal/hard music in the same way the rest of us were. Fleshing out those
heavy riffs wasn't necessarily working or coming naturally at that time.
To anyone who was seeing
us live, I can only guess that songs like “Sleepyhead” and “Jesus Crux” may
have hinted at our Beatles influences, but songs like "Off The Slug"
and "Insomnia" certainly don't make it obvious.
McCartney is my favorite
bass player and I was always trying to find appropriate melodic lines to
compliment the songs. The pre-chorus to "Everything's Fine" is an
example of my love of McCartney, and I recall actually saying out loud while
writing the part: "what would McCartney do?". Kyle's solos on
that record are also, I think, reflective of his understanding and love of
straight-ahead melody-oriented guitar solos.
N:
I think
1995 would have been one of the most difficult years to release an album----PERIOD.
There was this collision between the cool affected-disaffectedness of early
90’s youth culture (I sense a wry critique of this in “Cal Cool (You’re So
Whatever)”), and something more earnest and dramatic emerging in the first wave
of “post grunge”. Either way, it didn’t seem like a new group could win—if you
fell in with the post-grunge crowd you would attract megatons of hipster ire
for being too serious/ earnest/ stiff…but if you channeled the energy of the
early 90’s groups you would be labelled a “band-wagon jumper”. I think the
enduring strength of Greta is a testament to the band not falling into either
camp---being more transcendent...but did you guys ever struggle with anxieties
about image? Especially after changing your sound so much between albums? (My
take on 90’s culture is from second-hand accounts/ my own preconceived notions,
as I was only 2 or 3 years old when this was all happening-so feel free to set
me straight!)
JG: You're 100 percent
right. You're also spot-on about “Cal Cool”. There was a lot of
"hipster" bullshit at the time. I think that era gave rise to the hipster--
which none of us ever subscribed to. Silverlake (a hub of hipster pretension)
was near nausea inducing at that period of time. We WERE earnest! I think
that's one of the more tragic legacies of the 90s: a destruction of commitment.
Everybody became so disaffected and ironic. Irony and satire are great for
comedy and art in the right doses, but too much of it takes away society’s
emotional vulnerabilities. Without vulnerability, you're really just pretending
to be invulnerable. You can get carried away to some dangerous systems, many of
which we're experiencing in America now.
We didn't really struggle
with our image. We were just doing what we wanted. We had fun with image, and
by that I mean fashion can be fun, and has always been a huge part of rock and roll.
We liked that… Bowie, The Sex Pistols, etc… Of course, even no image is an
image. The Doc Marten's- cut jeans is obviously an anti-image image… but it's
still an image. We were, in a way, so unsuccessful with our first record that
we had nothing to lose, so we just did whatever we wanted. It gave us a kind of
freedom.
We were particularly
proud of the second record. I think we played really well together as a band. I
think "Silver Blue" was the tightest and most connected the four of
us ever played in the studio.
Here's a fun fact: Most
of the tracks on the 2nd record are demo versions. We went in to record the
album after doing the demos, and our A&R man said "these new versions
suck...we're going to use the demos". We recorded the demos in 2
days at Sound City, and there was no pressure. “About You”, “Charade”, “Silver
Blue”, “Strained”, “Cal Cool”, and “Some People” were all recorded at Sound
City for the demos. “Rocking Chair”, Nothing At All”, “Warm Disease”, and “Anomaly,” I
think, were recorded after the demos, and intended for the record. We're
critical of some aspects of “No Biting”-- some of the tempos are too fast,
there was a great deal of pressure, I don't think we're grooving and locking in
as a band the way we would have liked... I think “Insomnia”, “Jesus Crux”, and “Sleepyhead”
came out really well… but “Off the Slug”, “Is It What You Wanted”, “School On
Fire”-- we think are too fast.
We really like “Some
People” too! That would've made Paul really happy that it's one of your Desert Island
Discs.
N: Greta has
some pretty cool videos. “Fathom” and “About You” are a filmmaker’s dream---all
sorts of kinetic energy to work with---“Fathom”, for example, has that awesome
syncopated riff to frame action around (and, as an aside for any musician
readers-- the riff is a great way to see how good at alternate picking you
really are). Anyways, do you have any interesting memories from the actual
video shoots?
JG: We have great memories of the video shoots. I'm a huge film buff and have a real interest in design. The band let me run with conceptual ideas and production for the videos. For “Fathom” we were working with a pretty small budget. I think the director's name was Troy Smith. I was really into “Survival Research Laboratories”-- a performance art troop from San Francisco. They were doing very industrial, mechanical, violent pieces of performance art that I thought would be really perfect conceptually. Some of the intention behind “Fathom” was to sort of make us the house-band in hell. The opening "staccato" cuts are from a video for a song called "Fire Extinguisher Love" that I directed for a band I was in called "Ugly Wedding" in the late 80s. The guitarist and singer of that band, John Bird, grew up with Paul and I. He played organ on "Nothing At All" on “This Is Greta" and is currently the keyboardist for The Living Dolls with Kyle and I. I also really liked the idea of '60s go-go dancers dancing to such an un-sixties, undanceable piece of music. We had wanted the video to be much more colorful, vivid, and vibrant, and for whatever reason the colors weren't really captured as explosively as they looked in real life. The shoot was an absolute blast. we had a really good time making it.
We were all really happy with the “About You” video. I worked with the director, Bill Ward, with an idea that I wanted the backdrop to have a 60s feel-- like something from “Shindig” or “Ready Steady Go”, but on a bigger scale. We were letting some of our mod influences come out. The band was facing a critical point with our label and our success (or lack thereof). The A&R guy was really behind us, and we were very excited about this new music, and really enthusiastic about the video. Sadly, it was never sent to MTV. The band was really tight as a unit at that period of time-- musically and emotionally. Bill did a phenomenal job on that video. We met him through my sister, and he had just done work with The Smoking Popes. We still stay in touch through Facebook now and again.
"Fathom" MTV Video-1993 (Youtube)
N: Lastly, in
the spirit of Nick Hornby’s High Fidelity (thinking about the top 5
side-1, track-1 debate)… how much did you guys agonize about choosing the
perfect opening track for “This Is Greta!” “About You” seems like one of those
Platonic ideals of a side 1-track 1. Especially considering your influences--
there’s a lot riding on that track. It has to be a real knockout punch (The
Beatles’ “Taxman”, and The Knack’s “Let Me Out” for example).
JG: “About You” had that
feel for us too. I love that you use The Knack as an example. Paul and I were
absolute Knack freaks and I agree with you that “Let Me Out” is one of the
great all-time openers! With the title, “This is Greta,” we felt that the first
track had to exemplify this shift in sound for us. We experienced it as an
up-tempo, lift you off the ground, power pop opener. We were using it to open
our shows as well.
"About You" Video-1995 (Youtube) **ALSO LINKED AT TOP OF PAGE
N:
And of course I will give you some free space to say whatever you
want---anything you want the listener in 2020 to know, any projects you have going
on right now that you’d like to promote---absolutely anything.
JG: Kyle Baer and I still
play together in a band called The Living Dolls. All of my influences are there:
The Kinks, The Who, Lou Reed, ELO... I'm the lead singer, and I’m afraid I’m
not even on the same planet as Paul as a vocalist-- but I love playing music,
and will always do it no matter what. Scott was actually in the band for a
couple of months as well. We all keep in touch and miss Paul a great deal. He
was supremely talented. A tremendous songwriter.
During Paul's memorial,
John Easdale (the singer for Dramarama and the co-producer of our first album
and early demos) sang “Jesus Crux” and “Sleepyhead” with Scott, Kyle and
I.
It’s so nice to know that
people are finding and appreciating the music now. It's validating. It means a
lot to us and would have meant so much to Paul.
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| Greta c. 1993, Photo by Greg Allen |
