So, first off, Uncle Green and 3 Lb. Thrill are the same group (the latter being a reincarnation of the former, but the former being the moniker that graces the front cover of Rycopa).
But what's in a name? That which we call 3 Lb. Thrill by any other word would sound as sweet;
So 3 Lb. Thrill, were they not 3 Lb. Thrill call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which they owe
Without that title. (My words)
Following 1995's "Vulture" the group got to work on the ambitious, kaleidoscopic double-album "Rycopa". Completed in 1997, Rycopa looked poised to ascend into the stratosphere...and it would have, had it materialized. Instead, the group's label waffled, and the album went unreleased for 14 years. Finally, in 2011, a successful Kickstarter campaign sprung the lost masterpiece from it's bardo, purgatory, limbo, etc etc... (whatever liminal state best resonates with the reader).
This album is extra special to me, so I thought I would take a slightly different approach to this post. To make this possible, founding Uncle Green/ 3 Lb. Thrill member, and consummate musician, Pete McDade, has very generously agreed to answer some of my questions. Here are a few tracks to play for an optimal reading experience:
St. Lazaro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwsLuyLejEE&index=18&t=0s&list=PLEfQtN7Eu_7VHAZN2ZE0pp5ocKZSP1ifR
Wassamatta With You?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfcOau40na0&list=PLEfQtN7Eu_7VHAZN2ZE0pp5ocKZSP1ifR&index=15
Karen Dine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVoJlo7jMVc&list=PLEfQtN7Eu_7VHAZN2ZE0pp5ocKZSP1ifR&index=1
Q: Thanks so much! I really appreciate it! Firstly, I wanted to ask you about the scope of the album--it plays almost like a "variety show" (conceptually how Sgt. Pepper's worked...or maybe The Turtles' Battle of the Bands); it's very eclectic- theatrical at times, even. And on top of that it's a double album! Was approaching the writing/ recording of this (colorful, theatrical, double) album not absolutely terrifying??! I mean, when it gets that big, it becomes a sort of grand artistic statement--you've gotta fully embrace it/ get behind it.
A: It took us 14 years to actually get it released, after finishing recording, so it's nice to have a chance to talk about it. What I remember most about the recording experience was a sense of excitement. I mean, we always loved the record-making process, but working on Rycopa was like getting to live a childhood dream. We'd been a band since we were teens, and had always dreamt of renting a house and making a record, and this was our chance to do it.
So we basically tackled a song a day. Matt, or Jeff, or Matt & Jeff (if they had written a song together), would start by playing the basic structure on piano or guitar, and then the four of us and Caram, our engineer, would start batting around ideas for arrangement and production.
Since it was just us, in this house, we really had an "anything goes" approach. We set the drums and amps up in various rooms to see what sounds we could get, rented a grand piano for the living room, and just started trying as many different approaches as we could.
By dinner we usually had the basic parts of the track in place. At night, we had any friends or guests come over to sing or play, to see what they could add.
So maybe the short answer is: we were too excited to understand we should have been a little more nervous about it all.
Q: I was reading a bit of history on the whole 3 Lb. Thrill/ Uncle Green saga, and noticed a credit on a Jesus Christ Superstar project-was going to ask if maybe Rycopa was born out of a musical theater interest- but really from what you're saying, it sounds like it wasn't a concept album in the least; you guys never sat down and said "this is what the next album is all about/ these are the types of songs we need to start writing"? Maybe that's why it feels so organic! You can point to little musical motifs and points of influence here and there...but the songs all feel really timeless. They're the types of songs that could've been written in 1968 or 2018. What advice would you give to songwriters who want to pay homage to certain musical eras or figures without ending up with a novelty record? I know "timelessness" isn't exactly a teachable concept-but is there anything from the writing/ jamming/ recording that you remember that helped keep you all in the zone?
A: Yes, you put that very well--we didn't go from the concept and then move to the songs. We started with the songs, and then the themes that tie them together emerged later.
For me, thinking about this time again has me noticing how similar the process of shaping a record and writing a novel are: I start with characters, and how they interact is what reveals the themes. In this case, the songs are the characters, and their interaction creates a mood/feeling/etc.
In short, I'm glad that Rycopa feels like a concept album.
And I agree that "timelessness" isn't something you can teach, in part because it's something I don't think you can set out trying to create. But I do think there are key elements in music that make certain songs/albums feel timeless, just as there are key elements in novels/movies/etc that can create the same effect. For music, I think melody sits at the center of it all, or at least it always did for Uncle Green. Around that center you construct the rest of the song, using dynamics and structure and arrangement. Then you finish by getting rid of all the unnecessary bits.
Does that make sense? It's almost like the first step is not trying to create the sense of timelessness. Write what you need to write, focus on making the best parts of that particular song as good as they can be, and then hope you did it right.
And then try again.
Q: I think that's hugely important. I guess I'm more from the "Myspace/ Soundcloud generation" where it's like-if you want to start a band, the first thing you do is go set up a band page and enter your genre, your key influences, and what sorts of movements/ eras you identify most with. A lot of the time that's before any songs have even been written. It's almost like step 1 is getting the marketing department up and running-identifying your key demographics...and then absolutely everything else comes afterwards. It's too easy to get carried away. So, lastly I wanted to ask--Sony was the label you were dealing with circa Rycopa? You guys had a hit as 3lb Thrill with "Diana", and then you give them two discs of fantastic material (with even more in the bank...I haven't even mentioned the outtakes album:"Scrapple"-you obviously had a lot of material to choose from; lifting a few radio singles would've been really easy)-and there's no release for 14 years? Did they ever give you any reasons as to why they weren't prepared to get behind it?
A: I think that's an interesting ripple effect of the web I had not thought of before--young bands needing to explain and identify themselves at a very early stage, for websites/etc. Back in our day (cue old-timey music) we'd get asked about influences and sound in interviews and such, but otherwise never had to think about it that much, beyond our own private discussions.
As far as the non-release of Rycopa: yes, we were signed to 57 Records, an imprint of Sony. Calling "Diana" a hit may, alas, be a bit of a stretch--did well at radio, but not super huge, and we were told by MTV they wouldn't play the video, out of lyric(!) concerns. So our next record for Sony was actually a big make-or-break moment for us, and we went for broke.
This was either brilliant or foolish.
Sony said they didn't hear a single in the first 32 songs, which was when we went back and recorded MORE demos--the last 5 songs on Scrapple come from these sessions. Still no single, and we were dropped.
Sony did say we could have the tapes, but we were moving on, we thought, and got close to signing to MCA, before our A & R fan lost his job. Ah, the music industry. Then it took several years of searching and cajoling, before someone at Sony finally entered the right search terms and found the tapes in the ominously named "Iron Mountain" storage facility.
https://store.cdbaby.com/cd/unclegreen2
Good interview with some really interesting insights into the creative process, as well as into the music business. Thanks for introducing me to Uncle Green!
ReplyDeleteThank you for the kind words--and you're very welcome! :)
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